Course Information Page

[ERicJ]

Use these links for more detailed course information, directions, reviews, pictures, etc.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3330
<PDGA Link TBD>

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/extimg/c1_g/3330.png (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3330)

ERic

[ThePatrick]

Thanks Eric. I hope to get the rest of the hole pictures out of my phone soon. There is a sign for the walking trail that says "residents only" so I would try to not push the boundaries on this one. This is definitely not a place to smoke/drink, as almost the whole course is visible from the road, and the other very visible from the fairly busy jogging track. Please be aware that there really is no parking for the park, so it is definitely a neighborhood course. Let's be extremely respectful to this park. It is not a destination course that most people will go out of their way to go play, so if something happens like Oak Meadows and the "residents only" starts to be enforced tightly it will directly affect the people that live close to this park. If you do not respect this park then you are causing the people that do live here, causing us to have to pack up, and drive a whole lot farther, usually taking Beltway and paying a toll to play the game that we all love.
So please, be respectful.

[srm_520]

Do you have any coordinates to plug in so it can be mapped?

[srm_520]

Nevermind - I just used this from the other thread.

Here? http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=29.925203,-95.615945&sll=29.924552,-95.615323&sspn=0.006769,0.011137&ie=UTF8&ll=29.924979,-95.61573&spn=0.006769,0.011137&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A

[mr.ed]

Patrick:
We need to check on the residents only situation. It is my understanding that this property belongs to the Harris County Flood Control Distric and the subdivision is using it at there discretion. I guess if push comes to shove they could pull their baskets if they got mad. I just don't see how they are able to restrict access to public property unless there is some kind of lease involved.
Do we know which subdivision put this in ( there are two adjacent to the course ) and/or who who was the catalist and/or designer. To my knowlege you and I are the only discgolfers in the immediate area.

[ChrisMacG]

Do we know which subdivision put this in ( there are two adjacent to the course ) and/or who who was the catalyst and/or designer. To my knowledge you and I are the only disc golfers in the immediate area.

I googled a bit and can tell you that the Wortham Grove sub-division makes no mention of Disc Golf in any of their published newsletters of the past three months. http://www.worthamgrove.com/worthamgrovedocuments.html

The land is owned by Harris County MUD #222, so I can't see how the course can be residents only. Possibly only for the people in that MUD, but that's a stretch too. It's damn peculiar with no parking too. I can't see the county doing something like that.

[Miller]

As for the "residents only" sign, it looks to me like that was put in with the walking trail. There is no dedicated sign for the course that I could see.

[ThePatrick]

As for the "residents only" sign, it looks to me like that was put in with the walking trail. There is no dedicated sign for the course that I could see.

Yeah, that's what I saw too, but if the resident's get a bad taste in their mouth they will not hesitate to try to enforce that on the disc golf course as well. I would love to figure out the course designer's identity as well. I would love to run a mini out there of, but of course would like to meet the designer first. I have already started conceptualizing some longer tees (that include the lake)

[srm_520]

The land is owned by Harris County MUD #222, so I can't see how the course can be residents only. Possibly only for the people in that MUD, but that's a stretch too. It's damn peculiar with no parking too. I can't see the county doing something like that.

It would be pretty awesome (an unlikely) if the MUD was spearheading that since there is a lot of land like that in this area. If someone has a secret in - that would be great to find out.

I have already started conceptualizing some longer tees (that include the lake)

After looking at that lake - it's pretty big. That south part looked like the only great part to incorporate (but maybe you have a better vision :) ) - but with all that foot traffic on the walkway - it probably won't be worth it. It'd be like a worse version of Nottingham with its pedestrians.

[Bizzle]

Here is an overhead of the new course location. The red star is the parking lot....walk back across the bridge to the practice basket marked with the blue star. You will see the concrete tee for hole 1.


http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/brycdavis/WorthamLayout.jpg


I went out there this morning and it still was not mowed.

I was also thinking that maybe down the road we could add 9 more holes out there, possibly around the lake a la Neil Dambra's layout at Aquatic Center in Mo City.http://hfds.org/vbull/%3Ca%20href=%22http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/brycdavis/?action=view&current=WorthamLayout.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22 %3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/brycdavis/WorthamLayout.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Wor tham%20Trails%22%3E%3C/a%3Ehttp://hfds.org/vbull/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/brycdavis/WorthamLayout.jpg%5B/IMG%5Dhttp://hfds.org/vbull/%3Ca%20href=%22http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/brycdavis/?action=view&current=WorthamLayout.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22 %3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/brycdavis/WorthamLayout.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Wor tham%20Trails%22%3E%3C/a%3E

[Miller]

Anyone hear anything about who put in the baskets or is in charge of the land?

[rcazares]

Anyone hear anything about who put in the baskets or is in charge of the land?

Some of Nicole soccer teammates and other friends live in Wortham. I was told that it was a Boy Scout troop project.

The parking lot by the pool and tennis courts gets very crowded sometimes. If so, you might be able to park by the side of the road on Wortham CENTER blvd. Wortham Center blvd is the street that crosses Wortham blvd south of the course. It is a little bit of a walk, but you can start the round by playing to first hole you get to, rather than hole one.

Lastly, please be on your best behavior at this course. The course is plainly visible from the street and the walking trail. In addition, Nicole is hoping to introduce some friends and teammates to the sport. I would hate for junior girls, their families, and the Wortham community to dislike the sport (and the course) because some people want to use the course as a place to get wasted and leave trash all over the place. Let’s keep it a family friendly course and maybe we can grow the sport in this area.

Rick

[srm_520]

Anyone hear anything about who put in the baskets or is in charge of the land?
Some of Nicole soccer teammates and other friends live in Wortham. I was told that it was a Boy Scout troop project.

The parking lot by the pool and tennis courts gets very crowded sometimes. If so, you might be able to park by the side of the road on Wortham CENTER blvd. Wortham Center blvd is the street that crosses Wortham blvd south of the course. It is a little bit of a walk, but you can start the round by playing to first hole you get to, rather than hole one.

Lastly, please be on your best behavior at this course. The course is plainly visible from the street and the walking trail. In addition, Nicole is hoping to introduce some friends and teammates to the sport. I would hate for junior girls, their families, and the Wortham community to dislike the sport (and the course) because some people want to use the course as a place to get wasted and leave trash all over the place. Let’s keep it a family friendly course and maybe we can grow the sport in this area.

Rick

My only question: is parking on the street legal? There are lines in both of those parking sections and I would hate to get a ticket. I would rather park on the street anyway and just start the round on two or three.

[mr.ed]

To answer your question, it is illegle to park on Wortham Blvd in the areas that have yellow markings. It is however allright to park any where that is not marked with a no parking sign. I would not park in the pool parking lot near hole #1 as it belongs to the subdivision and it gets really crowded on the weekends. I would recommend parking on the entrance street into Wortham Grove adjacent to hole #6 as there aren't any no parking signs in that area. I wouldn't park anywhere along Wortham Blvd as it is a very busy street.
By the way, as I passed the course this evening I noticed a mower sitting in the middle of the course. Looks like it may get mowed early this week.

[Miller]

By the way, as I passed the course this evening I noticed a mower sitting in the middle of the course. Looks like it may get mowed early this week.

Is that the Hallelujah chorus I hear??

[Miller]

Some of Nicole soccer teammates and other friends live in Wortham. I was told that it was a Boy Scout troop project.
Rick
Any chance of finding out the troop number?

[ThePatrick]

Anybody got time for a round today?

[mr.ed]

Well, the mowing has been done but they haven't baled the hay yet. Near as I can tell at this point the course was put in by the subdivision (Wortham Villages) and MUD 222 with some of the work done by a Scout troop as a merit badge service project. I have some calls in to a couple of contact numbers but havn't heard any thing back at this point. I went by after work and and there were several groups on the course. I introduced myself to a group of four 15-16 year olds with one brand new disc (drivers) each. As they were brand new I showed them how to do a runup and how to throw correctly which they seemed to appreciate.

[srm_520]

Well, the mowing has been done but they haven't baled the hay yet. Near as I can tell at this point the course was put in by the subdivision (Wortham Villages) and MUD 222 with some of the work done by a Scout troop as a merit badge service project. I have some calls in to a couple of contact numbers but haven't heard any thing back at this point. I went by after work and and there were several groups on the course. I introduced myself to a group of four 15-16 year olds with one brand new disc (drivers) each. As they were brand new I showed them how to do a runup and how to throw correctly which they seemed to appreciate.


Interesting to hear about the joint collaboration with the MUD district. Please keep us posted as you find out contacts or the initial designers, since there are few areas north of here controlled by the mud districts that would be great as DG courses. Plus I always have some kids at school looking for projects to do.

BTW - Sorry Patrick - didn't see your post until late. Would have been nice to get out and play a round today.

[jcamp]

Nice little course. As Ed said, it was mowed but there is a lot of grass laying around - I think it will get better as they mow. The tee boxes are cement but too small, and one is totally pointed the wrong direction. Nice lay-out, easy to follow, with quite a few trees and good D, but it is totally flat. It would be nice to see them expand it to 18 or redirect a couple of holes to take in the lake for a few water shots and some elevation changes. I'll definitely play it again.

I parked in the yellow striped area along the street as did two other cars on Saturday with no problem, but it would probably be best to avoid it. I'm sure the HOA expected residents to park at their club/pool house but I'm not sure how they will react to out-siders, especially on a Sat/Sun afternoon.

Jack

[ThePatrick]

The tee boxes are cement but too small, and one is totally pointed the wrong direction.
Jack

Are you talking about #5? It seems like the big tree is supposed to be a mando, but it's not marked.

[srm_520]

Are you talking about #5? It seems like the big tree is supposed to be a mando, but it's not marked.


I originally thought that too, but even then the angle is really fierce. I'm think they may have just poured the concrete and then decided to move the basket to a different location. Serves as a good reminder why concrete needs to wait until everything is set.

[mattman]

the course is great, and the tee boxes are pretty good too. they are small but can easily be used as they are intended. Not a problem getting to the tee box from the grass so it is fairly easy to step to the concrete for a solid release. Just down the road from my house and offers some nice long holes and has plenty of room for expansion. One of the better nine hole courses in town.

[mattman]

hole 1's basket is very close to hole 2's teebox! I am talking deadly close.
Who is the contact for this course?

[mattman]

ok, I may have been a bit overzealous when stating how great this course is. After a round yesterday and looking around this is not a safe course to play. There are holes too close to others, it could use a redesign bringing the water into play imo. But I don't remember anyone asking for it.:p

[srm_520]

ok, I may have been a bit overzealous when stating how great this course is. After a round yesterday and looking around this is not a safe course to play. There are holes too close to others, it could use a redesign bringing the water into play imo. But I don't remember anyone asking for it.:p


Problem with bring water into play is that then you'd have to deal with the walking trails a lot more - and it looks like it has heavy traffic all of the time.

[mattman]

no more traffic around the water that is not already hazardous. It is pretty busy out there, and the sidewalk does not come into play on my re-design.

how do these over par courses keep getting put in without and fore thought about safety and the over all design of a course? If it is not done correctly, why bother. There are plenty of qualified people in the area to help put in a course but are never contacted.

[ChrisMacG]

how do these over par courses keep getting put in without and fore thought about safety and the over all design of a course? If it is not done correctly, why bother. There are plenty of qualified people in the area to help put in a course but are never contacted.

Isn't this course a Boy Scout project course like the one in Shadow Creek Ranch? If so then there are two dangerous courses in the area put in by Boy Scouts.

Maybe the best solution would be to contact the BSA and educate them on course design and disc golf safety. Obviously it would be mutually beneficial to disc golfers and the Scouts if they had better guidelines for course design.

[ChrisMacG]

A quick Google resulted in this interesting disc golf related doc on the BSA site:
Disc Golf in Support of Scouting (http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/TrainingModules/DiscGolf.aspx)

The PPT on the above page is interesting too. The photos on the 15th and 36th slides are pretty interesting.

[LOU18132]

Isn't this course a Boy Scout project course like the one in Shadow Creek Ranch? If so then there are two dangerous courses in the area put in by Boy Scouts
Maybe some are trying to earn their Lifesaving and Medicine Merit Badges with a little bait. Keep an eye out and see if any are lurking in the bushes as you play. :cool:

[ChrisMacG]

Maybe some are trying to earn their Lifesaving and Medicine Merit Badges with a little bait.

I wouldn't be surprised, making Eagle Scout is a pretty grueling challenge.

[LOU18132]

I made a Girl Scout one time.

Hey, we were 10 and I got a kiss. :D:D:D

[Miller]

Maybe the best solution would be to contact the BSA and educate them on course design and disc golf safety. Obviously it would be mutually beneficial to disc golfers and the Scouts if they had better guidelines for course design.

As I recall most scout troops didn't really consult the BSA before doing a project like this. You're basically at the mercy of the troop and hoping you can help them make improvements.

[mattman]

So no contact info I suppose

[Miller]

Some more info on the course...

Parking: Park in the yellow turn lane by the #1 basket. If you park in the street you risk getting a ticket as the nice officer informed me yesterday. (He said if you park in the grass, not sure why anyone would, it's a very big ticket. So park wherever, but basically don't block the lane of traffic.

He also said that the land is owned by the MUD which I think is #222. I haven't verified that yet though. He said to play there you either need permission from the HOA or from the MUD. He said he doesn't usually kick people off, but they can.

[Midnightbiker]

Some more info on the course...



He also said that the land is owned by the MUD which I think is #222. I haven't verified that yet though. He said to play there you either need permission from the HOA or from the MUD. He said he doesn't usually kick people off, but they can.

Why would anyone care if you are in a field throwing a disc. I practice on city property in Humble, and I have for 2 years now. The city owns a vacant lot between the Library and a Senior Center. I have been seen by city workers, the police, and others, and nobody cares, or has ever talked to me about it.

[Smokin' Joe]

the taxes you pay, make it yours too! Must be marked Private Property, I'd think.

[Miller]

But I don't live in MUD #222 so I don't pay the taxes. And there is a sign that says residents only. Hence the need to ask for permission.

[mattman]

the residents need to buy a lawn service

[Miller]

I just played it yesterday and it was pretty good. The wind was out of control as usual, but I think that's always going to be the hardest part of the course. Anyone know if you can take wind into determination when figuring out the par for a hole?

[Smokin' Joe]

Par is always 3, but conditions do play a part in round ratings. Don't know how it all works since I'm a casual player. (to give all the other players a chance at winning something) ;)

[mattman]

Par is always 3, but conditions do play a part in round ratings. Don't know how it all works since I'm a casual player. (to give all the other players a chance at winning something) ;)
yeah, just show up with beer and you can play joe

[Smokin' Joe]

count on that! Oh yeah, that's another reason for playing casually.

[mattman]

You know me, I do count on you bringing beer!

[Smokin' Joe]

I don't drink NA beers. http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/112.gif

[mattman]

I forget to read the label and then it is too late.

[ERicJ]

Par is always 3
Who told you that??

[Smokin' Joe]

that's the way it's been in the tourneys I played. Tom Bass even.

[Miller]

I've been places where the par is not listed as 3. I know it depends on distance/foliage/etc. I just didn't know if wind could be a consideration since it's not always constant.

[Smokin' Joe]

Yes I agree that there are places that lists the pars differently, but based on tourney play, like at Tom Bass where there are par 4's and 5's, they are changed to par 3's for tourneys. Mostly, everyone just plays them as par 3's so they are used to it come tourney time. There was also discussion on this board about a tourney. I don't remember if it was States or what, but rounds were rated differently for some because of the wind....could've even been rain, but can't remember.

[ERicJ]

Par is always 3
Who told you that??that's the way it's been in the tourneys I played. Tom Bass even.

Par is definitely not always 3. Par is typically defined by the course designer and/or the tournament director.

I know for sure that the Texas States Tournament for the past three years (two of them at Tom Bass) has used realistic par values, that means Par 4's and 5's on longer or tougher holes as appropriate.


Yes I agree that there are places that lists the pars differently, but based on tourney play, like at Tom Bass where there are par 4's and 5's, they are changed to par 3's for tourneys. Mostly, everyone just plays them as par 3's so they are used to it come tourney time. There was also discussion on this board about a tourney. I don't remember if it was States or what, but rounds were rated differently for some because of the wind....could've even been rain, but can't remember.

The only time Par really matters for anything is in a tournament when a player misses their starting hole(s). They card Par+4 for each hole missed. That's why it's important for TD's to set realistic pars: so that the penalties are appropriate.

Consider a really tough hole in a tournament, could be a long wooded real Par 6. Say that the weather conditions are poor too with rain or wind. Most players are carding 7's, 8's, 9's or worse on that hole. If the lazy TD has declared "all holes are Par 3" and you find out that you're starting your second round on that tough hole you might consider getting back from lunch about five minutes late and taking your Par 3+4=7 on that hole and probably coming out ahead of most players without throwing a disc yourself. (Of course intentionally circumventing the rules is also grounds for disqualification, but that's another debate.)

That's not going to happen very often, but it should never be allowed to happen at all if TD's do their job and make sure the course has real Par values.


The discussion surrounding the 2009 TX States ratings for rounds on the second day came about because tee times were used and thus some divisions tee'd off earlier with calmer weather and some divisions tee'd off mid-day with worse wind conditions and the really late tee times were back to lesser wind. So the discussion was whether or not to split the divisions up for ratings purposes. Nothing to do with Par values.


I've been places where the par is not listed as 3. I know it depends on distance/foliage/etc. I just didn't know if wind could be a consideration since it's not always constant.

I've never heard of a situation where Par values were based on wind as a factor... but that doesn't mean it hasn't been done before.

[Smokin' Joe]

It was during one of Gimp's tourneys when he ran them. http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/76.gif

[derek]

I think what he was saying is par is always the same no matter what the wind is, just using par 3 as an example because it is the most common...but the SSA may change due to wind and weather. I dont think that you could say that certain holes changed par though due to wind.