Cement Tee Pads

[underpar24]

Is there any new information about getting cement Tee pads at Houston area courses. I just don't see how a town with as many corses as Houston has, doesn't have cement tee pads. I think that this would easily bring the ratings of our courses up a notch or two.

[duffyskin]

Though a great thought I don't see that ever happening because the city cannot justify it because of the expense and the fact we live in what's considered dry hard soiled climate. Have you ever tried to mix concrete half a mile away from water and electricity? It would take no less then 20 80lb bags to do one box. I used to hate concrete tboxes but as I got older and more capable of breaking an ankle I have had a change of heart. Let me know if anyone ever tries to take on building some and needs a hand.

[underpar24]

yes i have no problem helping out. i mean i would be willing to donate and do the manual labor required to build these pads. i just wonder if we are allowed to build them.

[Suemac]

Over the years, attempts have been made to bring concrete boxes to Houston courses. Our efforts historically, even with us providing labor/materials fell of deaf ears.


HOWEVER, that is in the process of changing.


Think positive thoughts and let your city leaders know your thoughts.

And stay tuned, I am pretty sure your help might be needed in the near future.

[ChrisMacG]

Our plan for TLV DGC was to eventually have cement tee pads on all the regular tees however we're been getting feedback from players that they'd like to see reprocessed rubber mats. Having never thrown on these mats I'm curious as to how they feel, especially in wet weather.

[underpar24]

I have played on them and they are better then not but they just aren't as good as cement. Also if the rubber mats aren't laid very well then they will have puddles on them and it gets kind of annoying. I think that if you are going to do something that cement is the best route. i am sure that the majority of disc golfers would want to have cement pads more then rubber.

[Suemac]

Is that the person trying to sell you the pads? :rolleyes:

Ask anyone that plays Bear Branch in The Woodlands. They have them, and they can give you an ear full of commentary. And, I bet they would overwhelmingly vote for concrete over flypads.

If concrete is properly textured, and installed, it is FAR SUPERIOR to any pad I've ever played off of.

[Smokin' Joe]

Bear Branch has newly installed pads, I've heard. Haven't played there lately.

[LOU18132]

As wet as most Houston area courses are most of the year, if you play in cleats for traction in the fairways, concrete tees are deadly in cleats.
Just on more thing to consider.

[underpar24]

if someone were to be wearing cleats on a rubber pad, don't you think it would tear the rubber up. Maybe people wearing cleats should just drive from the side of the pads (cement or rubber). This is not an issue for me since i do not wear cleats. i just think it would be worse to get rubber pads and then have them get destroyed by cleats.

[Smokin' Joe]

has no effect on the pads unless you are using those metal cleats, which would be crazy. Those would grab hold and OOOPS, there goes the knee!

[ERicJ]

Our plan for TLV DGC was to eventually have cement tee pads on all the regular tees however we're been getting feedback from players that they'd like to see reprocessed rubber mats. Having never thrown on these mats I'm curious as to how they feel, especially in wet weather.
I'd vote for concrete tees every day of the week.

(BTW, I know a guy in the industry and he's always correcting people on the difference between cement and concrete (http://www.cement.org/basics/concretebasics_faqs.asp)...)

[Smokin' Joe]

*just add water* :rolleyes:

[Jake Walsdorf]

Decomposed Granite... I can wear my cleats on it.:p But breaks down and is like throwing off BB's

Turf is slippery.

Compacted shell works for a while. It must be contained and maintained.

Flypads work in dry climates if installed properly.

Concrete hurts my knee but it's by far the best solution.

[Suemac]

As wet as most Houston area courses are most of the year, if you play in cleats for traction in the fairways, concrete tees are deadly in cleats.
Just on more thing to consider.

They never seem to give me any issues, and I have always worn softball cleats since I started. The boxes in Victoria are great, and I would use them as a good example.

I know, we could have "shoe washers" at every tee box. Little folks working for tips! :eek: :D j/k I do know that last year at TWC, that would have been a big hit! LOL

No matter what, you can't make everyone happy, but this is something that should be on the top of a local "wish or to do" list.

[Midnightbiker]

Bear Branch has newly installed pads, I've heard. Haven't played there lately.

I played them last week, and they are very nice. Terramont also has the same rubber mats, and I have never had a problem with them.

[bmugwump]

I haven't traveled extensively to play like some of you have, but just about every other city I have been to have courses with concrete pads. I don't like wearing cleats because of how they hold the mud...if you're walking around where there are pine trees pretty soon it's like you're wearing snowshoes! The only time I've seen concrete tees that didn't always work is when they made them flush with the ground. After the rain, the mud slides onto the tee pad. They should be slightly raised off the ground (ideally) so that doesn't happen. Other than that, I definitely LOVE concrete pads...and it seems like, in the long run, they would last a lot longer than those rubber ones like out at Bear Branch. Some purists prefer the grass tees so that they can be moved around from time to time for tournaments.

[Midnightbiker]

Here is a picture I took at Bear Branch last year:

[LOU18132]

Four sack stabilized sand works great, let it set up then break it up (easier with a back hoe if you are using truck loads) form your tee pad, roll it down and it will stay firm yet porous. It is alot cheaper than concrete but you do need someone that has worked with it before. ( #9 at Burke-Crenshaw was done this way about eight years ago)

[Suemac]

Here is a picture I took at Bear Branch last year:

Didn't someone state that there are new pads at Bear Branch?

If so, how long did the first set last? I know they couldn't have been but five or six years old at most.

Flymats are just so....................lame, and short lived in our climate.

[LOU18132]

Let some of our engineer friends chime in on the uses of stabilized sand and it's qualities, you can do a test tee for about $150.00, I think. I've been out of the loop awhile (retired).TLV should have contacts for the product and equipment for installation, try a test tee box and see before spending more.

[ChrisMacG]

Let some of our engineer friends chime in on the uses of stabilized sand and it's qualities, you can do a test tee for about $150.00, I think. I've been out of the loop awhile (retired).TLV should have contacts for the product and equipment for installation, try a test tee box and see before spending more.

That's about the price range I've found too. Making a test tee is a good idea. We'll keep that in mind but I can't see anything being done tee wise for at least a year. We'd like to see how these tees play for a while before doing anything more permanent than a marker.

[LOU18132]

Get a load of 4 sack stabilized, put it on hole one and see what you have in the next year, just a test. The Mayor should be able to get one load delivered for free somewhere. :cool:

[duffyskin]

Stick with your guns and hold out for concrete. I think with the mayor being so involved that the chance of getting the concrete out there is pure timing and the stroke of a pen. I say don't put this off with a test hole. Don't give the chance to have to think about while the test is being observed. Inevitably I'm always going to look from the other angle.

[underpar24]

I think that you should just go with the cement tee pads since they take way less up keep, are better to throw off, and last much longer. seems like a easy choice if you are ale to put them out there.

[Miller]

Another vote for concrete. I haven't tried the sand option that Lou mentions, but the rubber pads never seem great to me. They tear up easier and seem much slicker in the rain than concrete to me.

[derek]

Our plan for TLV DGC was to eventually have cement tee pads on all the regular tees however we're been getting feedback from players that they'd like to see reprocessed rubber mats. Having never thrown on these mats I'm curious as to how they feel, especially in wet weather.

Rubber pads are the way to go. Easily moveable, and you can propose them as 'eco-friendly' recycled material.

Concrete pretty much rules out changing any holes easily, and it also has the same puddling problem. Pads arent supposed to be raised off the ground whether they are concrete or rubber, theyre supposed to be flush.

If you are going to argue about slip, I would much rather slip and fall on a rubber mat than a concrete pad any day.

[Miller]

Rubber pads are the way to go. Easily moveable, and you can propose them as 'eco-friendly' recycled material.

Concrete pretty much rules out changing any holes easily, and it also has the same puddling problem. Pads arent supposed to be raised off the ground whether they are concrete or rubber, theyre supposed to be flush.

If you are going to argue about slip, I would much rather slip and fall on a rubber mat than a concrete pad any day.

I agree that if you think you might want to change locations on your teeboxes than rubber pads would be a better choice. But this is the exact reason that I like concrete better. Once set it's there. You don't have it pulling up and wearing out like rubber pads do.

[derek]

I agree that if you think you might want to change locations on your teeboxes than rubber pads would be a better choice. But this is the exact reason that I like concrete better. Once set it's there. You don't have it pulling up and wearing out like rubber pads do.

I dont really see where this is a big problem. yes there are places where corners of the pad have come up, but this is due to improper installation or lack of general maintenance. If you want to see what can happen to concrete pads go take a look at mcdade where the water has eroded all around and under them and some of the pads have actually cracked and are now uneven. I think the argument of erosion is more problematic for concrete than rubber.

You will always be met with tons of resistance if you try for concrete pads, and therefore we have a city full of courses with dirt pads

[underpar24]

i just think that concret pads are better to throw off of. but don't get me wrong, i would much rather have rubber pads then dirt.

[duffyskin]

I dont really see where this is a big problem. yes there are places where corners of the pad have come up, but this is due to improper installation or lack of general maintenance. If you want to see what can happen to concrete pads go take a look at mcdade where the water has eroded all around and under them and some of the pads have actually cracked and are now uneven. I think the argument of erosion is more problematic for concrete than rubber.

You will always be met with tons of resistance if you try for concrete pads, and therefore we have a city full of courses with dirt pads

Sounds like the concrete was just slip slapped in. Either perfect positioning or some ground stabilation has to be done. The bridgeland. Course has no cracks in over 10 years.

[Suemac]

Bridgeland isn't ten years old.

[srm_520]

Rubber pads are the way to go. Easily moveable, and you can propose them as 'eco-friendly' recycled material.

Concrete pretty much rules out changing any holes easily, and it also has the same puddling problem. Pads arent supposed to be raised off the ground whether they are concrete or rubber, theyre supposed to be flush.

If you are going to argue about slip, I would much rather slip and fall on a rubber mat than a concrete pad any day.

Look at pictures of Circle C at Slaughter Creek (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=542) in Austin if you want a good idea about how to overcome the puddling problems. Plus you just make the area in front of the tee more mulch or concrete and there isn't an issue.

Plus, if it's a good design - why do you need to move the tee anyway? Also, why can't you have raised teeboxes? Why do they HAVE to be flush?

Finally, when it comes to slip - it's not an issue if the concrete has been brushed properly during installation. Even if the concrete is wet. Also, you just don't wear cleats - problem solved.

Sounds like the concrete was just slip slapped in. Either perfect positioning or some ground stabilation has to be done. The bridgeland. Course has no cracks in over 10 years.

I believe Bridgeland is going on year 4 or 5, not year 10.

[derek]

Ok, i just looked at the pictures and most of those teepads are flush to the ground like they should be. The puddles happen on the teepad themselves because there are low and high spots and the water cant drain through them like it can on rubber mats.

You may have a great design but it will get tired after 5-10 years and its good to change things up some. Or situations may come up where you just need to move a teebox for whatever reason.

Yes brushing the concrete does help, but its not always done. Just last week i was in LA and 2 of the courses had concrete pads that had not been brushed and everyone was sliding all over the place.

Alot of players have a run-up so thats why pads are supposed to be flush and it seems Houck realized that for the most part

[srm_520]

I get the run up aspect - hence why I used Circle C as my example. They have about a 2-3 foot barrier around the entire pad to ensure the the lip remains even with the rest of the area. But what I mean by raised is that you make the pad and mulch area even, but have that raised above the rest of the surface to help with drainage. That way when I'm at Agnes Moffitt - the tees are sitting under water. Then use something like logs as in Circle C to make an outer barrier.

As far as brushing - well, not much to say except if someone puts in concrete they had better watch closely and make sure the concrete people do their jobs. Besides leveling, a good brush job may be one of the most important parts of concrete tee installation.

[derek]

I have no problem with the entire area being elevated with at least 3 or 4ft around the teepad that is flush. But the issue i am speaking of which is very common is when you get a normal rain and there are puddles on the teepad itself.

How often does it rain so much that entire pad area is under water? Sounds like a drainage problem that is seperate from whatever type of teepad there. Need to create a drainage ditch in that case because you will then have a raised teepad area that is surrounded by water anyways so you will have to walk through it to get there.

[srm_520]

I have no problem with the entire area being elevated with at least 3 or 4ft around the teepad that is flush. But the issue i am speaking of which is very common is when you get a normal rain and there are puddles on the teepad itself.

How often does it rain so much that entire pad area is under water? Sounds like a drainage problem that is seperate from whatever type of teepad there. Need to create a drainage ditch in that case because you will then have a raised teepad area that is surrounded by water anyways so you will have to walk through it to get there.


I can think of a lot of parks in the area that are fairly submerged after a good rain since the majority of them are built in flood plans. I agree about the ditch, it would be a good idea, but with the tee at least raised - even if you got wet getting there you can throw without having to worry about footing.

[derek]

I think we are on the same page, we both want better teepads for area courses, its just partly personal prefrence about cement or rubber pads.

My only other point is where there has been years of resistance by the city to allow concrete, maybe proposing rubber pads instead will sway them because of its advantages and versatility.

[Suemac]

The argument they have hidden behind was related to mowers in the park. Therefore, both MIGHT interfere with grass maintance, and that is why they have been closed to the idea in the past.

Has anyone seen any grass around the boxes at Moffitt? :eek:

And I always wondered about the slabs for the picnic tables, they somehow manage to work around them.:confused:

[mattman]

The argument they have hidden behind was related to mowers in the park. Therefore, both MIGHT interfere with grass maintance, and that is why they have been closed to the idea in the past.

Has anyone seen any grass around the boxes at Moffitt? :eek:

And I always wondered about the slabs for the picnic tables, they somehow manage to work around them.:confused:

I don't see much grass around them, but I have seen them mow the dirt for a few hours. It is great little dust storm to walk through.

[duffyskin]

Look at pictures of Circle C at Slaughter Creek (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=542) in Austin if you want a good idea about how to overcome the puddling problems. Plus you just make the area in front of the tee more mulch or concrete and there isn't an issue.

Plus, if it's a good design - why do you need to move the tee anyway? Also, why can't you have raised teeboxes? Why do they HAVE to be flush?

Finally, when it comes to slip - it's not an issue if the concrete has been brushed properly during installation. Even if the concrete is wet. Also, you just don't wear cleats - problem solved.

oops my bad i stand corrected. what was i thinking????


I believe Bridgeland is going on year 4 or 5, not year 10.

oops my bad i stand corrected. what was i thinking????

[srm_520]

That's why a proposal for raised tees may be more effective than a proposal for tees that are flush. They just don't want some nimrod running them over, so if they are raised slightly (like 3"-4") then they are easier to spot. Granted again, if they are raised, you have to make the immediate area around the teebox raised as well with something like mulch or gravel and then have the entire thing enclosed. More work - but it sure would look good.

[underpar24]

I think that if they were all raised then the parks and rec. dept. would have to find a new reason why we can't put these tees in. push if we did all the work and what not then it wouldn't hurt the park and rec any at all and it would make their parks look better.

[Midnightbiker]

The big concrete pads at Kingwood are great:



http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/Midnightbiker/Hole13-1.jpg

[underpar24]

The big concrete pads at Kingwood are great


yeah that looks great. I can't believe i haven't got up there yet and played a round. it is on my pirority list.

[nickster]

those pads were installed backwards i believe... :(

[ERicJ]

those pads were installed backwards i believe... :(
Yes, yes they were.
http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-course-design-guidelines

[mattman]

Yes, yes they were.
http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-course-design-guidelines
haven't played there, can you give more detail? I can't tell if the tee pad tapers at the back or not.

btw, anyone notice major discgolf courses are listed in the front of the phone book?

[srm_520]

Yes, yes they were.
http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-course-design-guidelines


Which is funny, but isn't really a big deal. In some ways I like it better to have a bigger area in the front of the tee instead of the back.

[LOU18132]

Front of tees have a set width. Foot fault.

[ERicJ]

haven't played there, can you give more detail? I can't tell if the tee pad tapers at the back or not.

The Kingwood tees are wider in the front than they are in the back.

[LOU18132]

Can Brad Wells have friends? He's my friend. :cool:

[Suemac]

Can Brad Wells have friends? He's my friend. :cool:

How much did you have to pay him, Lou? :p

[LOU18132]

Just don't know if he's allowed to associate with folks like us. :D:eek::cool: