Politics as usual

[bmugwump]

Wow! Somebody must've got on the horn late last night to ERic to wipe the TLV thread...I didn't expect it to be gone already this morning! I feel compelled to share with you my take on the Ad Hoc Committee meeting that took place last night at Taylor Lake Village City Hall regarding the TLVDGC. First of all, I'm glad there was a good cross section of residents that were either for or against the course....plus a few "outsiders" (as we non-residents were labeled last night) who were there to put in their few cents worth. There were, of course, legitimate concerns like trespassing into backyards for disc retrieval, urinating in public & safety issues...then there were other things brought up that only showed some residents' true colors that were obviously class prejudices. The guy that lives behind the tee for #3, who has bitched since day one that he can see people playing in a PARK, left before the meeting even got started after finding out that the first three baskets have been pulled....not even willing to stick around & listen to the other side or any options or compromises. Boy..that was easy! Another resident kept bringing up future expenses for the course...as most of us know, the expenses are minimal after the equipment is purchased & put in. But he did have an "a-ha" moment when he determined that the groundskeeper who lives on the property would now have to spend a little more time emptying the trash cans than he used to, thereby incurring an additional expense to the taxpayers! Another expressed concerns that the course will lower property values, while another thought that it would help to increase property values. One woman who jogs regularly at the park told us that she used to feel safe bringing her young daughter out there with her...leaving her ALONE at the playground while she ran a couple of miles around the trails (hello...can I speak to someone at CPS, please?). Now she doesn't feel safe leaving her daughter ALONE with all of these disc golfers around (never mind the fact that with more people around her daughter was probably safer!). Thank goodness she was followed by another resident who has been bringing his son out to play since the course went in & has had nothing but good experiences meeting & talking with players who have been nice enough to give them little tutorials on how to play & how to throw...but also making the point that he always has his son with him & is supervising him like a good parent should (touche' jog lady!). Another runner said that there were a lot of regular runners out there who are now having to dodge discs....followed by another resident who said he was glad the course was there so that finally it was being used by people (he, as a matter of fact, said that what he was hearing from some of the residents was BS...yes, he said the word in full at the meeting...I wanted to hug that guy!). A couple of people there obviously had a political agenda because they don't like the mayor & the mayor had shoved this thing down their throats & pushed it through too quickly...which may even be true! Most of these people struck me as the type that would be all excited if someone had come along & organized one of those tea parties we've been hearing about in the news lately at the park....they'd have no problem with that, I'll bet. It does sound a lot like Oak Meadows....except that out there in Bridgeland the course was planned for the neighborhood before they started selling houses there. Some of these people that were at the meeting last night seem to think that they are the elite....to me, they came off as elitist instead...and there IS a difference! Anyway...politics as usual. The course will go through a re-design....they seem to think that the course & the running paths cannot co-exist, even though most of us are aware of the fact that half the courses in Houston co-exist with running & walking paths....so I don't know how that will work out. I would be surprised if the course survives all of this...or if it does, it will be a course that doesn't challenge anyone & won't attract many players...which will probably make the TLV residents who don't want it there happy. We'll see what happens...but I'm not holding my breath.

[ChrisMacG]

I asked Eric to remove the TLV threads from the boards. The comments on this board are being quoted in emails from the people organizing against the course. Some of the comments were read back to us last night at the meeting and it didn't make us as a group look like the friendly, helpful, park-loving, community-oriented people that we are.

Some residents felt that this board is bringing unwanted attention to the park from Houston area disc golfers. They are worried that the park is is listed on national disc golf websites. Until the ad hoc committee finishes its work and the city council can decide what to do about the concerns I ask that people refrain from discussing the course here.

If you would like to help, please send a note to the Mayor about the course. mayor@tlv-tx.us

Thanks.

[LOU18132]

It was ok to use this forum to promote the course and ask for donations. :confused:

[mattman]

It was ok to use this forum to promote the course and ask for donations. :confused:
this board is more of an advertising tool these days than discussion imo

[bmugwump]

It was ok to use this forum to promote the course and ask for donations. :confused:From the way it sounded last night they wish that nobody had promoted the course & asked for donations in the first place...they made it clear that they don't even want any more donations at this time. Again...it was split pretty much down the middle as to who wants the course there & who doesn't, but the city itself at this point in time just wants everybody to chill for the time being. The main reason I was there was to assure them that Birdshot wasn't making money off of the course...and that we weren't taking over & running off people that were just there to play for fun & not play the minis, as was falsely reported to the mayor. I got so disgusted last night with it all that I am happy to comply....Jake & Jack Brooks park need help way more than these TLV residents. Chris & Steve thought they were doing a good thing (which there were!)....the residents tend to think differently though.

[ChingLizard]

Everything about this course smells funny.

At the request of Chris, the entire Thread has been removed. It will not be going back up.

[mattman]

Everything about this course smells funny.

At the request of Chris, the entire Thread has been removed. It will not be going back up.

I suppose the high dollar home owners don't see tie dye very often? We need these discgolf courses near trailer parks

[Suemac]

Was that supposed to be funny? :o

And you wonder.................LOL

[mattman]

Was that supposed to be funny? :o

And you wonder.................LOL

file this under can't win for losing. Wish I could have played the course, but can sleep well knowing I was not a culprit or used as a pawn. Will do some conspiracy theory realizations over the weekend, since I am not going to Wimberly after all.

[bmugwump]

You guys & gals have fun at Teams! Who knows...maybe next year...Team Birdshot? And sorry for the novella I authored this morning...I just had to vent!

[LOU18132]

Everything about this course smells funny.

At the request of Chris, the entire Thread has been removed. It will not be going back up.

So would any post on this board with the mention of TLV in it be censored and removed? :confused::eek::rolleyes:

[ChingLizard]

Uhhh...I don't think so. I did this as a favor to Chris MacGregor, but I strongly believe that the problems with the TLV aren't because of this message board or any of the discussion about it.

Let me see if we can follow the logic here:

1. TLV was rush-installed in a hurry.
2. General public was made aware that a new course had been designed and were invited to provide input on the design, but were discouraged from providing "critique" on it.
3. Course got installed because of a strong personal relationship with the mayor.
4. Mayor oversteps boundaries (by the sound of it) in approving its installation without community "buy-in" or concensus from community.
5. Because of probable design issues, we've got folks entering a protected wetland area to retrieve their discs, discs landing in backyards, and joggers being hit by discs being thrown because of lack of courtesy on a player's part.
6. Leagues and Minis start up immediately out there.
7. TLV starts hearing some negative feedback from a few folks out there who don't like having a course there.
8. Immediately shutdown 3 baskets of the course until they can be redesigned.
9. Small group of complaining neighbors succeed in having committee established to examine whether the course should remain with redesign or be removed.

SOLUTION: Shutdown the only disc golf advocacy forum here on this message board.

Oh yeah...now I can understand how we arrived at this solution. :eek:

[LOU18132]

BINGO Larry, Thank you. :cool:

[bmugwump]

It was at the request of the City of Taylor Lake Village....Chris was asking as a representative of the committee on it's behalf. He & Steve were just trying to do what they can to immediately appease these people. No leagues have been running or even mentioned at TLV. The fund raising minis were my idea because I felt bad about not helping out any with the course when all this was getting started because Birdshot was so busy with SVSV at the time. Excuse me for trying to help out in some small way! Bad idea I guess. And Larry, your assessment of the situation is partly correct...mistakes were made & the neighborhood didn't know what hit 'em! If the city is now paranoid about "outsiders" coming in & ruining their quality of life, the less said about the course on any kind of public board like this one will hopefully let things calm down a little bit....and discontinuing any kind of organized anything out there will also allow things to cool down a bit. Maybe Steve went about this thing the wrong way...imagine how he must feel right now with all of this going on? He knows most of these people...and he probably feels a little bit stupid, or at least uncomfortable that things have turned out this way. I don't see what the big deal is helping them out by taking the thread down for now. Stating that it will never be allowed back onto the board when & if things do get worked out is just wrong!

[tarazarr]

Steve and Chris, I just want to say how terrible I feel for you guys. You worked your tails off and from all the post I've read it sounded to me like both of you tried your best to dot every "i" and cross every "t". You did real work and allot of it and I'm really sorry your efforts and hard work have turned on you. I never got to play your course but hopefully your good work will prevail, even if it means selecting a brand new location... If it all continues to go south maybe you can talk the mayor into donating the baskets to a YMCA or some other youth organization that would welcome a course with open arms and you guys can design again.

Keep your chin up, don't throw in your towel. You can succeed. Like midnights qoute says.."when one door closes another one opens" your just in the hallway right now.... I support you guys all the way:cool:

[ChingLizard]

I too am very sorry that it hasn't been more popularly received by their community. It sounds as if it is a very vocal minority with axes that need to be ground.

What I can't wrap my arms around is that this discussion board having very active message threads of excitement and enthusiasm and support for the efforts of getting the course in down there, has been singled out as being the cause of their issues. It isn't.

Yeah, the new course was seeing a flurry of activity from the large (and mostly silent) Houston disc golfers. Yes, it was probably because it was promoted so strongly on this discussion board. But that same tool can also be used as part of the solution instead of being fingered as a cause of the problem. The problem has been in the communication going outbound about the course. Chris and perhaps Billy have been promoting play out there a ton and it probably has the effect of bringing more folks into their community to see what all of the "hype" is about.

The problem is, if things need to cool off, then use the forum to say just that. Most all of our readership wants basically the same goal: another good quality course in our area/city/region. This board can be used to rally all kinds of support and funds if needed. It can't if there isn't a place to converse about it and to disseminate information...whether "official" or un-official.

Now I don't have any experience working for a Parks and Recreation department anywhere. But I'm pretty sure that one of the things they get measured and jazzed about is the usage of their facilities. I just can't understand how any park facility wouldn't be greatly pleased to see a 50% increase in the usage of their facility. Neighborhoods like TLV (perahps) and Bridgeland (for sure) should want to draw outsiders into their community to show off how desirable it is to live there. It helps to drive up the value/prices of their property. Usually, communities know that drawing in outsiders will also increase the likelihood of them deriving revenue from it.

Gosh...taking down the means to promote visitors to their community to see how lovely it is, and what great facilities and variety they have for recreation seems like it would be heading in the wrong direction.

[Midnightbiker]

Every time that I drove down there, I ended up spending money in the community by eating at some of the local restaurants, but I guess my money is not good enough for them.

[Smokin' Joe]

Please correct me, if I am wrong, but didn't Steve log in to the board and rally for help (almost forcefully), saying that the course was going in? Sounded as if it was going in whether we or anyone else liked it or not! It's mentioned that he knows some residents out there. Is he a resident? Did he rally the residents to get them on board? It sounded like that's the way he was going, but it appears he didn't. I picture a carriage before the horse and pushing doesn't get you anywhere. Especially nowadays! (dam political correctness!) Knowing now, what we should've known back then, maybe a 9-hole temp course with temp baskets out there once a week was the answer....to get the buzz going?? (OOOOH, WHAT'S THAT?! THAT LOOKS LIKE FUN! DADDY, CAN WE GO OUT THERE AND SEE WHAT THOSE PRETTY SAUCERS ARE AND WHY THEY MAKE THE SOUND OF CHAINS BANGING?) Ladies and Gentlemen! Since the temps were well received, we're going to be adding a permanent course for your EVERYDAY ENJOYMENT! ALL ABOARD!!!! CHOO-CHOO!!!!! :D

(not you Matchu!) :o

[bmugwump]

I wish you guys could have been at this meeting to see how ridiculous it was (on the part of the naysayers)...the course plan was approved...the city even decided to help kick in come money....the Clear Lake Forest HOA heard about it & wanted to kick in some money (not solicited!). But because some of these people didn't do their homework, they ended up approving something that they had no idea what the impact would be. The ONLY reason the committee asked to temporarily close the TLV thread was to maybe keep people away for a while....Chris & Steve's personal reasons were because one guy was printing out copies of some of the more "personal attack" quotes that a couple of people had made on the thread & were using that against "us". They just wanted to take away this guy's apparent ammunition for the time being. All of this "I told you so" stuff is irrelevent now....a lot of hard work seems to be going down the drain, and hopefully things will calm down & they can reach a compromise. Remember...half the people at this meeting were for the course & had no problems with it or the players. But these people that had it out for the course from the get go actually sit on City Council and, unfortunately, carry a lot of weight. I just hope that when it's all finished, their will still be a nice course to play. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

[Smokin' Joe]

For the Love of the Chains, I hope it stays too! :D

[bmugwump]

Every time that I drove down there, I ended up spending money in the community by eating at some of the local restaurants, but I guess my money is not good enough for them.
Oddly enough, most everything down the street at Nasa Parkway is not in TLV....I think maybe just the convenience store across from City Hall & the Bay Area Meat Market (which does have a restaurant in it!). Someone brought that up at the meeting (one of those "outsiders" that didn't know any better)...he was quickly told otherwise.

[ERicJ]

Larry, I'm not going to debate your list point by point, but not all of them are completely correct.


SOLUTION: Shutdown the only disc golf advocacy forum here on this message board.

Oh yeah...now I can understand how we arrived at this solution. :eek:

To my knowledge no one said or proposed that putting the TLV forum on hiatus was the solution.


What I can't wrap my arms around is that this discussion board having very active message threads of excitement and enthusiasm and support for the efforts of getting the course in down there, has been singled out as being the cause of their issues. It isn't.

Where was it singled out as the cause of their issues?

[bmugwump]

Never was the one & only issue. We had no idea they were even looking at the board...and were taken aback when this one guy came into the meeting with a printout of some posts that were negative to the homeowners. I guess the fact that we promoted the course on the board so heavily did contribute to so many players showing up out there...but that's what we do! The city council members on this committee only asked that for now we cease to "advertise" this course outside of the immediate community...the easiest way to do that seemed to be to ask if the thread could be shut down. That was Larry's call..he didn't have to do it & didn't want to do it...which is his right as moderator. I'm mixed on it...but as you can see it hasn't stopped me from talking about it with the thread gone for now. Hopefully without a direct thread that is easy to spot the locals won't so easily find ammo against the course...and hopefully some of the players will have read this mini-series and decided that, for now at least, maybe it would be a good idea to go play someplace else....or at least not show up in groups of 10 and 20! There's gotta be a soap opera episode in all of this somewhere, right?

[mattman]

the irony is gleaming bright! the park was not getting use and now too much.
I have that beat tho, having sold my car to pay for a hospital stay, and then am released to drive again one week after selling my car.

[ChingLizard]

Eric: It was a knee-jerk reaction on the part of Chris that taking down the discussion areas for TLV would somehow aid their efforts. It was singled out because they think that someone quoting some crap off this message board somehow damaged their position. Huh? Maybe something that was directly attributable to Chris or Steve might've been damaging somehow, but I don't recall seeing anything like that. What could've been damaging to their cause other than the fact that directions and maps were published on how to get there.

Billy: My point exactly...if they need to ask folks to stay away for a little while so they can negotiate a solution with folks then they've killed their best way of doing so. They've also killed a way to let everyone else know what is going on, and how we else we might be able to help.

Maybe I wrong on this point, but isn't open communication about problems/challenges/issues pretty much universally accepted as a "good thing?" And isn't a discussion forum pretty much an example of an open communication vehicle?

Oh well...I guess it now becomes their personal battle against the nay-sayers...and with that, it gets cast into almost the same category as Oak Meadow.

[bmugwump]

You've got to understand that trying to talk to some of these people was like talking to a brick wall. One guy started off by saying that he & his wife were in a park in Colorado which also had a course in it....and the players there were yelling at them to get off the course. Even though this had nothing to do with anything happening here, they already had built in prejudice coming into this deal. And as far as what was on the thread that was objectionable, I would say that calling someone a pr**k where anyone can see it is not a good thing....nor is it constructive criticism.

[Smokin' Joe]

just call them a RichardHead. LMAO ;)

[ChrisMacG]

Eric: It was a knee-jerk reaction on the part of Chris that taking down the discussion areas for TLV would somehow aid their efforts.

No, it was not a knee-jerk reaction. I was asked to get the TLV site off this board by a member of the city council and a number of members of the ad hoc committee. Their specific complaints about libel on the board and promoting their park to the entire Houston area are valid issues.

Larry you can paint things any way you want. You were not at the meeting and it is obvious that you aren't reading what anyone who was at the meeting had to say about it or you wouldn't make false statements about it. Your attitude in regards to this issue has been frustrating to deal with. You could have handled this matter in a much more positive and supportive way but you didn't.

I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the laws regarding libel on websites/blogs and message boards for your own protection.

[mattman]

hmmm, this looks like a difficult situation, I hope for a timely resolution that makes everyone happy!

[slowmo]

the only thing that bums me out about the whole thing is the possibility of losing the course that brought me back to playing disc golf after a nearly 3 year hiatus. We finally get a course in the clear lake area and look to possibly lose at least part of it in less than 2 months because people can't behave themselves, watch their language, stay out of people's private back yards, and use the restroom instead of the trees! Guess I'll just go back to being a lazy bum playing warcraft.

[ChaseTheAce]

im really sorry to hear about all of this. my grandparents/aunt and uncle live in some Condos right down the road from the park and I had planned on playing it whenever I visited. I did get a chance to play it once and was very pleased with its design and how pretty the park was. Its sad to see such hard work put into something and then have it taken away

[Miller]

No, it was not a knee-jerk reaction. I was asked to get the TLV site off this board by a member of the city council and a number of members of the ad hoc committee. Their specific complaints about libel on the board and promoting their park to the entire Houston area are valid issues.

Larry you can paint things any way you want. You were not at the meeting and it is obvious that you aren't reading what anyone who was at the meeting had to say about it or you wouldn't make false statements about it. Your attitude in regards to this issue has been frustrating to deal with. You could have handled this matter in a much more positive and supportive way but you didn't.

I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the laws regarding libel on websites/blogs and message boards for your own protection.

Although I don't remember the libel/slander part I agree that can be a problem. I'm not sure if it's the site's owner's problem or not since I haven't read the laws though. My question is what is this was a national forum instead though. Would it still have been removed? As for promotion, since this isn't the only website with disc golf stuff on it, won't it still be promoted to the rest of the world? Isn't http://tlvdgc.org/ still up and running. Is it on the PDGA and other disc golf sites? I guess my point is that I think the slander/libel should be moderated if needed. I don't know if I agree with removing the entire thread. Not my decision, just my thoughts.

I am really sad for you Chris with all the work you did and the frustrating last few weeks you've had with all of this. I really hope the course works out.

[Smokin' Joe]

I haven't played it and probably won't. Well, maybe I will......someday. :rolleyes: However, this is getting REALLY OLD. :stirthepot: Just think of those individuals that raised concern, sitting at their computer, MODing this site, laughing at you for removing the thread. They can't govern what happens in the world wide web. Is the community gated? Is the course gated? Do they have a guard shack there? I could go on, but won't.....those who know me can feel where I'm heading with this and are laughing or at least smiling right now...probably blushing too cuz it's gonna be :eek: rated! :p


:humor:

[mattman]

if only we drove nice cars, and wore khaki shorts with a sweater tied around the neck. I can imagine hearing golf course and the residence pictured a Golf country club... which disc golf is not. everyone can play discgolf.

It is funny because the tlv website is still up with directions to the park. Let's get back to our roots and protest!

[LOU18132]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I remember the name calling of the resident came from another resident, or the son of said resident. :D The statement just happened to be posted here. :cool:
As far away as I am, after I played the course a couple of times, I planned to just keep on going to Jack Brooks next time down that way. This was before the hoopla. :)

[bmugwump]

I've missed playing at Brooks the past few weeks too...and I'm more than ready to get back over there & help Jake get that course finished! And there's not much more to be said right now about Peyton Place....I've said way too much already!

[duffyskin]

fk em. just google it.

[Jake Walsdorf]

I've missed playing at Brooks the past few weeks too...and I'm more than ready to get back over there & help Jake get that course finished! And there's not much more to be said right now about Peyton Place....I've said way too much already!

Sure, come back to the old hag after finding out that the new princess is really a dog. :p Too bad that design issue wasn't brought up in time to change the layout. :rolleyes: Maybe the course would have started off on the right foot.:mad:

[mattman]

speaking of politics...
anyone do dyes out there? I am wanting a Joe Pags putter, and of course the second Messiah Obama inside the "no circle"

[Midnightbiker]

I want to say that even though I live 60 miles away, Jack Brooks is my favorite course. I really wish I lived closer. Everytime I am out there, I feel at home. Also, since I found a Church's Chicken in Hitchcock, I am a very happy man.:D

[czytxbtch]

i love jack brooks, i play there as often as i can. see u out there!;)

[derek]

Too much Political Correctness is the problem around here, not just politics.

[bmugwump]

I didn't make it to the second ad hoc committee meeting last night for TLVDGC, but from the letter to the mayor Chris forwarded to me regarding how rude & obnoxious the anti-course members were it sounds like it was even more brutal than the first meeting! It's probably a good thing I didn't go...because I may not have been able to restrain myself from using a few choice words that are not allowed to be written on this post! I will be surprised if there is any kind of a course left over there when all of this is said & done. Maybe there were misunderstandings & bad info going around when the course was approved by City Council....maybe these people who signed off on it & now don't want it just didn't bother to do their homework & didn't realize the implications of putting an 18 hole course in & how many people would use it....but I would be pissed if I was one of the people who plopped down a grand to sponsor a hole, only to see the hole and/or the course disappear. I would be asking for my money back! Hearing the news about last night doesn't surprise me though....I had those people pegged the first five minutes of the last meeting, and I had no desire to go last night to hear more of the same. RIP TLVDGC!:(

[tarazarr]

if you know they're reading this board....why give them more ammo by posting those comments, if the people who read and subscribe to this board, dont care enough to go out there themselves, then why update them at all.

Let Steve and Chris fight their battle the best they can.

if I were one of those anti course residents your post would fuel my fire to keep rallying the troops, because the tone of your post is defeat...

[Jake Walsdorf]

Remember, a perceived reality is a reality for the perceiving person.

[bmugwump]

The tone of my post is the reality of the situation, Jake....these people know they've won already! They're just going through the motions here. There's nothing I've said here that I wouldn't say to any of these folks face to face. One of the residents themselves told off a bunch of them at the last meeting....told them they were full of it right there in front of everybody, and he wasn't even a player! The fuel we were talking about a couple of weeks ago was identifying a specific person & then calling them a derogatory name! As far as my perception that these naysayers are being elitist, I would be happy to call them that in person...because it's a fact! Again....you weren't there...you are apparently not getting the tone they have set. If any of you residents are reading this post, I think you should all be ashamed of yourselves for acting the way you are acting.

[mattman]

The tone of my post is the reality of the situation, Jake....these people know they've won already! They're just going through the motions here. There's nothing I've said here that I wouldn't say to any of these folks face to face. One of the residents themselves told off a bunch of them at the last meeting....told them they were full of it right there in front of everybody, and he wasn't even a player! The fuel we were talking about a couple of weeks ago was identifying a specific person & then calling them a derogatory name! As far as my perception that these naysayers are being elitist, I would be happy to call them that in person...because it's a fact! Again....you weren't there...you are apparently not getting the tone they have set. If any of you residents are reading this post, I think you should all be ashamed of yourselves for acting the way you are acting.

I get that tone when I see the photo of the course and the huge houses that border the beautiful park/disc golf course.:eek:

[Suemac]

Why are you guys beating this DEAD horse? :confused: It is really starting to stink up the board! :eek:

Where's a moderator when you need one? :D

[Mr. Blue]

Chris,
I want to thank you for the nice course. My son and I very much enjoyed your town government supported event and was also interested in the fact that this course is GREAT for junior disc golf. It is long for a kid, with enough short holes to allow a kid to score well. It is a safe community as was evident with the steady police presence at the event. The houses are nice, and I thank the locals for allowing the event to take place as it allowed me to watch my son play well on a NEW course.
It is disappointing that the home owners fail to see the benefits of a disc golf course in their community, and for those of you who were interested or refound the sport by way of this course, I hope that YOU can organize to keep your course. I say this because in the end, private communities care for the residents that belong to that community and bring in the taxes that make that community exist. Ultimately, the fate of this course is theirs to decide, and THAT is the "politics as usual" that we must ALL remember here. TLV will care for its own and what they think.
The GREAT news is that not far from TLV is a GREAT couple of courses on ONE property that has a VERY welcoming community that LOVES their disc golf. As a matter of fact, my son and I went and played those courses this weekend. We were welcomed and hosted by local players who shared and toured us around their NEW course that would WELCOME your support. Jack Brooks, YOU people are VERY much a positive group that support each other and your courses. It had been a while since I had been back, but with 2 courses in, I will be back MUCH more often. Hope to see the TLV faithful out at JACK BROOKS!
Remember what DIXON pointed out at SV this year. We NEED to be a more POSITIVE group and drop a lot of the negativity. THIS IS ME saying this. I'm trying to embrace that idea even in the face of THIS kind of adversity. Let's not look at TLV as a loss, let's look at it as an example of WHY we need to SUPPORT AND APPRECIATE courses LIKE Jack Brooks. For you Clear Lakers, it's the closest and best course you have again.

[Suemac]

Well said, but I think that the nature of this board, and I guess every discussion board can be used against its members by outside parties. Does that now mean that we can't do any commenting/complaining for fear of the LTV neighbors? Or the next neighborhood?

Sounds a bit like big brother. We don't go out and hate on their street corner, and I haven't read any real haters anywhere on this board when compared to the "real world" we live in.

If our board hadn't been here, they would have found another aveune by which to attack. Change for some folks is just down right DIFFICULT.

We all need to be positive, but don't say we can't speak out mind without fear from some uninformed outsider who won't care about us by the time the day is done.

[mattman]

I am positive I can not play the course. Is that better?

[bmugwump]

Sorry I brought it up again...but ICONONE had posted a thread asking What Happened to TLV?, so I directed him here by PM. At the same time, Chris had sent me a copy of the letter he wrote to the mayor...so I was just kind've killing two birds with one stone. Yes, it's a dead horse...and unfortunately will probably be a dead course! I won't bring it up again...if somebody else does, I might chime in though.

[derek]

So they are not even open to a redesign?

I will offer a redesign if TLV is willing to accept it.

[Suemac]

I think we'd be required to shop at Nordstroms, fairing only Ralph and Tommy attire. Tennis anyone? :D

[mattman]

I think we'd be required to shop at Nordstroms, fairing only Ralph and Tommy attire. Tennis anyone? :D

love/15

[Mr. Blue]

:DI DO find it ironic that the TLV thread was taken down by request, and that it was about exposure and damage control and everything else. Yet We have THIS thread, Someone else has started a thread on TLV in another section, and today I get a page invite on Facebook to supporters for TLV.
Wasn't the idea of removing the thread supposed to be to STOP drawing attention to the course and ourselves? LOL! Yet here we are with 2 more threads and a facebook page. BTW, check out the "news" section on the TLV Facebook page. IF something should be removed, perhaps it would be that segment. It MIGHT come off as adversarial and contradictory to your goals of a peaceable solution. Just a suggestion.
I know there are hurt people on this matter, but tread lightly if you want to have a chance in hell of keeping this course or getting the support to relocate or redesign. Remember the words of Confucius, who said, "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves".

Remember, we have freedom of speech. But we are NOT free from the consequences of that speech.

[Smokin' Joe]

:DRemember the words of Confucius, who said,

Man who have sex with tailpipe get hot rod.....:D

[tarazarr]

Politics as usual?

Windwood is seeing ALLOT of play lately, especially with the Grand opening mini coming up this weekend, the fact it is 99% high and dry even in the rain and it is a new and very challenging course. This is a great thing and disc golfers from all over the city are welcomed out here.

There are basically 2 rules: Check in at the front desk Mon-Fri if your starting your round before 5pm and don't start playing on Sunday until noon. Even if it's your 23rd time out there, you must check in at the front desk Mon-Fri before 5pm. There is a school on the property...It is law that all visitors check in, the church welcomes you out there but they must comply with the law.

When this is abused....discarded....ignored....blown off.... Will we be having these politics as usual discussions over this course as well?

There is even a sign as you walk out to the number one box, reminding you to check in first.

Is it really asking too much?.......Really?:confused:

[Miller]

I don't get it... rules apply to everyone?? I thought it was just other people. So does this fall under ignorant or apathetic? (Frustration starts to set in thinking about Windwood dissappearing/turning private/etc becasue of a few dingbats.)

[bmugwump]

I call it knuckle dragging!

[tarazarr]

It's happening out here and although there has not been anything said, Windwood has been extremely generous to Houston disc golf and deserves to have their few simple, very understandle requirements respected. It is by no means for any other purpose than to abide by the laws of having a school. Everyone.... Yes Everyone... Needs to know how serious this is... And we're all good:cool:

[Chadman]

I agree, Scott. The church has been very generous from the beginning. What they are asking for in return is really simple and should not be a problem for anybody. Let's hope we don't have a few bad apples that ruin this awesome course for the rest of us!

[derek]

this board is more of an advertising tool these days than discussion imo

this is a good quote

[DPdiscer]

Used both for marketing and discussion. Birdshot uses the board to let players know about upcoming events and then we discuss the events.

[bmugwump]

Funny that Matchu would put that on this particular thread...since it really was a discussion thread all along!:confused: I can see it on one of the tournament threads which does lend itself more to marketing stuff..although since it's a tournament thread one would really expect that sort of thing there!:confused: My advice would be to look for the threads that ARE discussion threads...and if you don't want to read "ads" for upcoming tournaments (whether in-town or out) then stay away from those particular threads...:o Makes sense to me anyway....

[derek]

I wasnt saying that its bad or theres anything wrong with it. Just a big constrast to the old board that had more discussions on discs, throwing techniques, course design, best scores, etc. This is a great way to spread tournament and event news. Was just noticing the other topics are low it seems.

[tarazarr]

I wasnt saying that its bad or theres anything wrong with it. Just a big constrast to the old board that had more discussions on discs, throwing techniques, course design, best scores, etc. This is a great way to spread tournament and event news. Was just noticing the other topics are low it seems.

My throwing technique= put disc in left hand, reach far back, pull said arm forward as fast as possible and let the disc rip from my hand... bout sums it up.....:D

Disc are round, some fly straight, some don't.... any questions?:D

the player who wins each round, has the best score...;)

courses are designed by people who think they can and have the energy to do the work....:confused:

Hey when's the next tourney?....LOL just kidding Derek...

[derek]

My throwing technique= put disc in left hand, reach far back, pull said arm forward as fast as possible and let the disc rip from my hand... bout sums it up.....:D

Disc are round, some fly straight, some don't.... any questions?:D

the player who wins each round, has the best score...;)

courses are designed by people who think they can and have the energy to do the work....:confused:

Hey when's the next tourney?....LOL just kidding Derek...

I think its time for a 'Whats in the bag?' Tarazarr video

[tarazarr]

Some E-Hydro...crack.....and a whole lot of sarcasm

[derek]

my real goal was to bump another thread, looks like it worked

[tarazarr]

my real goal was to bump another thread, looks like it worked
your getting tricky on us now....Usually you use the "This weather we're Having" thread for buring another thread...:rolleyes:

[derek]

your getting tricky on us now....Usually you use the "This weather we're Having" thread for buring another thread...:rolleyes:

nah, that is batman who does that!

[ThePatrick]

I think its time for a 'Whats in the bag?' Tarazarr video

Anyone that wants to shoot one let me know. It could be a good get to know the people you post with. Put a face with a name kinda thing. I have a little flip cam that's easy to do quick little videos with.

[mattman]

where is the rest of the quote?

[derek]

where is the rest of the quote?

the quote was edited to protect the innocent. you can quote me on that

[tarazarr]

Anyone that wants to shoot one let me know. It could be a good get to know the people you post with. Put a face with a name kinda thing. I have a little flip cam that's easy to do quick little videos with.

If your not playing Eberly this Saturday, bring the flip cam to Windwood at 8:30am and we'll go through my bag, at the mini and shoot the film....hahah

beware...there will be a run on "pigs" after the footage is viewed....

[mattman]

the quote was edited to protect the innocent. you can quote me on that

Don't quote me bro!

[mattman]

If your not playing Eberly this Saturday, bring the flip cam to Windwood at 8:30am and we'll go through my bag, at the mini and shoot the film....hahah

beware...there will be a run on "pigs" after the footage is viewed....

maybe some before and after footage would be nice, probably get better results going through my bag.

[derek]

Don't quote me bro!

will do