HOTT- Manor Stop July 26th NEW AUSTIN AREA COURSE!

[Suemac]

On July 26th, Team Justice will hold the first event at the new Manor course outside of Austin.

It was designed by John Houck and Mike Olse, and should not be missed. I am not able to post the information I would like, don't understand the board quirks yet.

Suggest any local golfers desiring a challenge attend, they use tee times so you must register before the event.

[JDiscraft]

Signed up yesterday, looking forward to playing this new course.

[scoot_er]

If you love Houston golf then don't go play this one! It is hard and you will be shooting closer to 100 than 54.


Now if you like challenging courses that make you think on each and every shot then you should go see how you can do.

[Suemac]

Shannon Fosdick shared that he has yet to score below 60, so OMG let's get a good group to go.

I know that Jen, Aquaman and myself are planning to carpool, and Dee might be joining our group too.

BeAustinWierd and be a part of the first ever event at Manor, as I am sure this will be a considered in the top ten of Texas going forward.

[scoot_er]

I would put it above Wilco based off design and challenge alone but Wilco challenges you in about 2 hours while Manor does it in 4.:)

[ChingLizard]

I've always been impressed with every Houck designed course I've ever played on. The guy rocks as a designer because he has an eye for "signature" type holes on every one of his courses...

I'd even be interested iin checking this one out...

[scoot_er]

It is mostly a Olse design BTW.

[Suemac]

Whoever's design.......not to be missed. Mailing entry for Jen and me today.

[scoot_er]

Just don't want Houck to get all the credit when I know how long Olse has been dealing with the people at Manor and how hard it has been to get the course up and running.

[zipper]

Are there any online pictures of this course?

[ThePatrick]

Any one else heading up, I think Tiff and I are going to this one.

[ChingLizard]

I was considering it, but I heard some negative comments about the structure of HOTT tournaments, and some shenanigans surrounding a player whose money was kept after his division didn't "make" and he declined to play in Open or Masters.

Apparently HOTT isn't very friendly to MPG players. :mad:

[scoot_er]

I was considering it, but I heard some negative comments about the structure of HOTT tournaments, and some shenanigans surrounding a player whose money was kept after his division didn't "make" and he declined to play in Open or Masters.

Apparently HOTT isn't very friendly to MPG players. :mad:


Yeah Larry I know it is hard to believe but some TDs actually require 3-4 players to make a division not just one. Probably shouldn't have kept his money but he had the choice to move and chose not too.

[TracyP)]

Any one else heading up, I think Tiff and I are going to this one.

Wanna Carpool?

[ChingLizard]

I don't have any problem with TDs closing a division that doesn't make 3 or 4 players, but if a TD does that, then full entry fee should get refunded, not kept...HOTT kept his entry fee after trying to force him to play in Masters when he didn't want to compete against them.

Everything seems reasonable up to the point where they didn't return his entry fee to him once the division didn't make. You can't force a player to play up. (If it had happened to me, I would've filed a protest with the PDGA over it.) Your assertion that he was offered a "choice" is absurd...what kind of choice is that? "Play up or lose your entry fee."

I can only imagine how vocal you would've been if that had happened to you! :eek: You complain when your division "makes" but still isn't large enough to suit you! Ha-ha!

[scoot_er]

I don't have any problem with TDs closing a division that doesn't make 3 or 4 players, but if a TD does that, then full entry fee should get refunded, not kept...HOTT kept his entry fee after trying to force him to play in Masters when he didn't want to compete against them.

Everything seems reasonable up to the point where they didn't return his entry fee to him once the division didn't make. You can't force a player to play up. (If it had happened to me, I would've filed a protest with the PDGA over it.) Your assertion that he was offered a "choice" is absurd...what kind of choice is that? "Play up or lose your entry fee."

I can only imagine how vocal you would've been if that had happened to you! :eek: You complain when your division "makes" but still isn't large enough to suit you! Ha-ha!




"You can't force a player to play up. (If it had happened to me, I would've filed a protest with the PDGA over it.) Your assertion that he was offered a "choice" is absurd...what kind of choice is that? "Play up or lose your entry fee."

He wasn't forced to play up he was just told that the only divisions he could play were MPO and MPM and that is a little different than forcing and ADV player to move up.

"I can only imagine how vocal you would've been if that had happened to you! :eek: You complain when your division "makes" but still isn't large enough to suit you! Ha-ha!


What do you consider making? When the "OPEN" non age protected division only has 3-4 players I don't consider that making and I just wouldn't play because it has been going on for years around here and it gets old playing with the same three people.

[mattman]

Yeah Larry I know it is hard to believe but some TDs actually require 3-4 players to make a division not just one. Probably shouldn't have kept his money but he had the choice to move and chose not too.

That makes a lot more sense than no day of sign-ups! Kudos for the TD standing up for the sport. How many winners do we need in a tournament anyhow? Next thing you JD is going to bring orange slices and crush soft drinks out for everyone.

[Suemac]

I was considering it, but I heard some negative comments about the structure of HOTT tournaments, and some shenanigans surrounding a player whose money was kept after his division didn't "make" and he declined to play in Open or Masters.

Apparently HOTT isn't very friendly to MPG players. :mad:

Larry,

One negative comment shouldn't be keeping you away. We all know we've heard lots of non-positive comments about other events, and that didn't keep you away.

And as you locals would say...........it's going to fill with or without you, so stay at home. :rolleyes:

[Suemac]

BTW,

Birdshot's published policy doesn't provide for refunds if you cancel after Thursday, so anyone who has something come up on Friday can't get a refund......sure hope my Mom doesn't die. Opps, it wouldn't matter as I don't play their events anyway. j/k

Or has that policy changed? I know about this as it happened to me at the beginning of the series. Luckly, I'm such a whiner and crybaby, I got my entry fee transfered to the next event, but I was warned that was not the policy going forward. And that was even with notice before Thursday with Mr. Michael.

[ChingLizard]

BTW,

Birdshot's published policy doesn't provide for refunds if you cancel after Thursday, so anyone who has something come up on Friday can't get a refund......sure hope my Mom doesn't die. Opps, it wouldn't matter as I don't play their events anyway. j/k

Or has that policy changed? I know about this as it happened to me at the beginning of the series. Luckly, I'm such a whiner and crybaby, I got my entry fee transfered to the next event, but I was warned that was not the policy going forward. And that was even with notice before Thursday with Mr. Michael.

Again, I have no problem with any TD saying that they require at least 4 in order to field that division.

So let's say I sign up a couple week in advance for GM division and then we get to morning of the event and the TD says "Hey Larry, we didn't get 4 players in GM division, so we moved you to Masters." I reply, "No thanks. I can't compete with the Masters so I'd rather not play in this one. May I have a refund back please?" TD replies "Nope. You can either play in Masters or forfeit your entry fee."

Huh?

Are you saying that I should've withdrawn before all of the registrations are in because it was looking like my division wasn't gonna make? Seems like a pretty sure way to make sure that no GMs sign up, or Pro Women or Master Women. Those are the divisions that always seem to have trouble filling...

I'm not real wild about running two timed tee-offs per day either as it makes it much more difficult to car-pool for lunch and to/from the tourney too. Some people like that format which is fine, but I'm not that big of a fan of it.

I'm interested enough in the Manor course to want to play it, but I just don't think I'd enjoy playing it as part of the HOTT series because of their lack of a fair refund policy if my division doesn't make.

[scoot_er]

BTW,

Birdshot's published policy doesn't provide for refunds if you cancel after Thursday, so anyone who has something come up on Friday can't get a refund......sure hope my Mom doesn't die. Opps, it wouldn't matter as I don't play their events anyway. j/k

Or has that policy changed? I know about this as it happened to me at the beginning of the series. Luckly, I'm such a whiner and crybaby, I got my entry fee transfered to the next event, but I was warned that was not the policy going forward. And that was even with notice before Thursday with Mr. Michael.


Real good customer service..........

I don't think they understand that they have pushed quite a few people away in a rude way and those people won't play their events anymore. Or maybe they do and don't care.

[scoot_er]

Again, I have no problem with any TD saying that they require at least 4 in order to field that division.

So let's say I sign up a couple week in advance for GM division and then we get to morning of the event and the TD says "Hey Larry, we didn't get 4 players in GM division, so we moved you to Masters." I reply, "No thanks. I can't compete with the Masters so I'd rather not play in this one. May I have a refund back please?" TD replies "Nope. You can either play in Masters or forfeit your entry fee."

Huh?

Are you saying that I should've withdrawn before all of the registrations are in because it was looking like my division wasn't gonna make? Seems like a pretty sure way to make sure that no GMs sign up, or Pro Women or Master Women. Those are the divisions that always seem to have trouble filling...

I'm not real wild about running two timed tee-offs per day either as it makes it much more difficult to car-pool for lunch and to/from the tourney too. Some people like that format which is fine, but I'm not that big of a fan of it.

I'm interested enough in the Manor course to want to play it, but I just don't think I'd enjoy playing it as part of the HOTT series because of their lack of a fair refund policy if my division doesn't make.



It's real hard to fill the Women's division when Andi decides to play FPM instead of FPO just to avoid Emily because she knows they will allow her to do so and play by herself.

Sorry just something I noticed.

[Suemac]

As a person who many times is in a division that might not make the required number, I know I stay on top of who's signed up.

In fact, for you Larry, can't you really still play as an am, but chose not to? Not sure what your ratings is, so don't mean to hurt any feelings.

The reality of the situation is that many of us in the REALLY small divisions always can choose to play in another division, yes, we might not cash, but we'd still get to play, participate and enjoy an event as none of us will ever make a living at this game. So, deciding to not play is a personal thing, not the fault of the TD. I am sure if you hadn't had any other options of other available divisions, they would have refunded your money or carried it forward to another event.

Many times I have played with people I didn't really chose to play with, but do to the issues you speak of, I had to or just not play.

Live by the Father Dave's Golden Rule..........if you're not having fun, go do something else.

BTW, I know there were 6 or more Pro Grand Masters in Kyle.

[Suemac]

It's real hard to fill the Women's division when Andi decides to play FPM instead of FPO just to avoid Emily because she knows they will allow her to do so and play by herself.

Sorry just something I noticed.

You are right, it isn't the best of examples to be putting out there for the other ladies. That is why one/two person divisions just don't make sense.

[vinnie]

I am sure there will be a grand master division
LT, DALE, and a senior grandmasters may be play OG (Ol Gary) Come on up....the course should be your deciding factor

[Jake Walsdorf]

I might be able to make this one... Will have to call Dan about a place to stay. Can't wait to see the layout, but not the 60+ on the score card.

[ThePatrick]

Tiff, me, matt, and Tracey are headed up. Look out rec division.

[Emily]

I have played in a couple of HOTT tournaments this year and have experienced a similar situation to what Larry is referring. I signed up several weeks in advance for the Gonzales Liberty Battle. The Wednesday before the tournament, I received an email from Patty letting me know that there were not enough women to fill the FPO division and they would not offer the division. My options were this: 1) play in one of the AM men's divisions (and tee off earlier), 2) play MPO, 3)don't play at all, or 4) call up every woman you know and talk to her about signing up.

Luckily, we were able to find a third woman and I competed in my division. However, the point is, Patty still let me know well before the tournament day and I had options even if they weren't the best choices for me personally.

[mattman]

I am down for a third woman anytime! :eek:

[Jake Walsdorf]

It is mostly a Olse design BTW.

Glad I know how to flick...:D

[Suemac]

We hit the road right after lunch, can't wait to see this course. For all of those from Houston heading to the Austin area for the Manor event....


Be careful and HAVE FUN!

[TBender]

Wow. What a course. Every hole will challenge you. No 200' gimmes (well, maybe 1).

Played the short tees and I still only shot 63-60. The best from the longs was 59-57.

1000 rated round from the shorts: ~56-57
1000 rated fround from the longs: ~62-63



Go and play this course.

[ThePatrick]

I had a great time out there. The were a couple of Kingwood holes, a couple of Wilco holes, and then just some big downhill open ones. It was fun, although the teeboxes left something to be desired (namely the other 4 feet off the back). Aside from really short teeboxes that course was a love/hate relationship. Anyone wishing to shoot a really challenging course should head up that way. Evolve or get left behind.

[TBender]

Heh, I forgot about the short short teeboxes. I saw a lot of diving board balancing off the back. Hopefully, they'll level off the backs soon. The course itself wasn't quite ready for primetime, but still it's awesome.

[scoot_er]

I had a great time out there. The were a couple of Kingwood holes, a couple of Wilco holes, and then just some big downhill open ones. It was fun, although the teeboxes left something to be desired (namely the other 4 feet off the back). Aside from really short teeboxes that course was a love/hate relationship. Anyone wishing to shoot a really challenging course should head up that way. Evolve or get left behind.



There aren't any Kingwood holes because even though there are a lot of trees the designer made sure there was a legit fairway.

[ThePatrick]

Five foot gaps with only a bail out low into a just happened to be dry creekbed? or the one that gave you an equally hard 8-10ft wide gap left or right? The opening to hole 15 as you play up the hill was just as cluttered off the tee as Kingwood. The rest of the hole did break open though. Not all of the holes were even remotely close, there was two or three though.

[TBender]

Gotta agree with Matt. Nothing at Manor was remotely like Kingwood. 5' gap for an 8" disc.

#15 might need 1 tree pulled around the teebox, but the rest had legit routes for the length of the holes (~200'). Plus some of those short holes were more open than it looked from the teebox. I noticed that when I looked back to the box from the basket. The mess on #14 is more mental distraction than physical deflection.

That is the one thing I really liked about it. You had to earn a birdie. Only #2 is a gimme (which I didn't get either round).

[ThePatrick]

Sorry to me that's very similar. I played Kingwood less five days before playing manor and they seemed similar on a couple of holes. Just my .02cents. Sorry for the disagreements. I am the one that enjoys both courses though.

[mattman]

Gotta agree with Matt. Nothing at Manor was remotely like Kingwood. 5' gap for an 8" disc.

#15 might need 1 tree pulled around the teebox, but the rest had legit routes for the length of the holes (~200'). Plus some of those short holes were more open than it looked from the teebox. I noticed that when I looked back to the box from the basket. The mess on #14 is more mental distraction than physical deflection.

That is the one thing I really liked about it. You had to earn a birdie. Only #2 is a gimme (which I didn't get either round).


I always find that amazing when I turn and look back and the line is so obvious. I have read that some of the top pro's walk the course before playing to see the lines.