Rubber for Moffitt?

[bigbadhillwilliam]

Moffitt is almost 20 year old disc golf distances. Concrete makes redesign more difficult if not impossible.

Moffitt could use a redesign. Will the city allow a redesign? I see lots of additional space out at the course. Rubber pads allow for an easier redesign and also allows water to drain better.

Concrete for moffitt is like souping up a moped.

I understand HFDS and HPARD have agreed on concrete. Was rubber ever considered, and if not why not?

[derek]

Originally Posted by bigbadhillwilliam

Moffitt is almost 20 year old disc golf distances. Concrete makes redesign more difficult if not impossible.

Moffitt could use a redesign. Will the city allow a redesign? I see lots of additional space out at the course. Rubber pads allow for an easier redesign and also allows water to drain better.

Concrete for moffitt is like souping up a moped.

I understand HFDS and HPARD have agreed on concrete. Was rubber ever considered, and if not why not?

Concrete for Moffitt is overkill I agree. You dont really need concrete to throw these holes, but it would be a luxury to have them or at least some kind of level surface.

I am in favor of a rubber pads as a good compromise between price and level playing surface and the ability to redesign later.

[JimG520]

Last time I checked (and it's been a while) the roll-up rubber mats aren't much cheaper than concrete.

They're also no silver bullet to the rutted-out tee box problem. You have to properly prepare the tee area before putting the mat down, and with the use that Moffitt gets, I'm not terribly confident that they'd hold up long term.

[ThePatrick]

Originally Posted by derek

Concrete for Moffitt is overkill I agree. You dont really need concrete to throw these holes, but it would be a luxury to have them or at least some kind of level surface.

I am in favor of a rubber pads as a good compromise between price and level playing surface and the ability to redesign later.

It would never last out there. They would look like Bear Branch after 3 months. IMO concrete is the only solution that would last. As far as the redesign, if you are looking for more challenging don't play there. To each their own, and Moffitt definitely has it's own. Unfortunately i would say a large portion of them do not get on this website, or come to HFDS meetings. This could be a little difficult when trying to gauge public interest and the best choice for the park. I appreciate all suggestions, and welcome them any time.

[JimG520]

Originally Posted by ThePatrick

This could be a little difficult when trying to gauge public interest and the best choice for the park. I appreciate all suggestions, and welcome them any time.

There's plenty of public interest, nobody is doubting that. The question (or at least one of them), is whether or not it is in The Club's best interest to invest heavily at that course.

As far as the redesign, if you are looking for more challenging don't play there. To each their own, and Moffitt definitely has it's own.

That's the kind of attitude that makes some say "**** it, if Moffitt needs concrete let the players at Moffitt pay for it".

[derek]

Originally Posted by ThePatrick

It would never last out there. They would look like Bear Branch after 3 months. IMO concrete is the only solution that would last. As far as the redesign, if you are looking for more challenging don't play there. To each their own, and Moffitt definitely has it's own. Unfortunately i would say a large portion of them do not get on this website, or come to HFDS meetings. This could be a little difficult when trying to gauge public interest and the best choice for the park. I appreciate all suggestions, and welcome them any time.

So I guess its either 5-6000k for concrete, or just move the tee posts around? Either one is fine with me

Somewhere we need to try rubber pads, maybe moffitt isnt the best place, but somewhere!!!!!!!!

[bmugwump]

This course is one of the oldest & most heavily used in the Houston area...it has been host to many Ace Races, Ice Bowls & obviously the Moffitt Show every year...if HFDS is willing to put up some of the money for concrete with the rest coming from fundraising efforts I don't see why it shouldn't be done! If someone is really serious about a redesign, then this needs to be talked about & come together quickly...although I think most of the people who play there regularly like it just the way it is. For those of you who don't think the course is challenging enough...have you ever played from the long tees? Changes things up quite a bit! For those of you who think it's a mediocre course and therefore not deserving of concrete tees, I would disagree...if it were up to me (and it certainly isn't!) ALL courses would have concrete tees!

[JimG520]

Originally Posted by bmugwump

if it were up to me (and it certainly isn't!) ALL courses would have concrete tees!

I think every disc golf agrees with that. But there's a little problem...

[ChingLizard]

Originally Posted by bigbadhillwilliam

Moffitt is almost 20 year old disc golf distances. Concrete makes redesign more difficult if not impossible.

Moffitt could use a redesign. Will the city allow a redesign? I see lots of additional space out at the course. Rubber pads allow for an easier redesign and also allows water to drain better.

Concrete for moffitt is like souping up a moped.

I understand HFDS and HPARD have agreed on concrete. Was rubber ever considered, and if not why not?

ROTFLMAO! Nope William, you are the first one to ever come up with that idea.

Here is a little history of what has been tried at Moffitt to date:
- Mid-Late 90's - rutted tee boxes were filled with caliche rock and tamped. Also, I believe that pee-gravel was used on a few boxes as a test. They eroded, gravel/rocks either sank into the mud or were kicked out.
- Late 98 or so: sand was used. That eroded very quickly and was scattered out of the boxes.
- Early 2000 - a couple of bags of concrete was mixed in with caliche rock on #9 and watered a little. Caliche wasn't bound by cement properly and rutted out.
- 2001 - Steve Dufrane brought out two rubber pads to loan us for trial solution. Installed one on #9 and one on #11. The pad on #9 curled up on edges and developed deep indentation in the middle. Steve enventually took them back.
- 2001-2002 - HFDS installed wooden frames to help contain dirt and filled boxes with decomposed granite, tamped all down. Once the clay sank into the ground, the granite that wasn't decomposed turned into little ball-bearings.

Course redesign of Moffitt is something that can be discussed separately at a club meeting, but it should be treated completely separately from the installation of concrete tee boxes.

While I agree with folks that rubber mats do make things more flexible, in theory, the fact is that rubber pads only work if the base is properly prepared with the right materials...which doesn't make them portable at all.

The reason why concrete should be chosen (at least for Moffitt) is because of the type of soil out there. When it rains, it retains water and gets really soft. When you put rock or gravel on top of that soil, they get pushed into the ground and sink. When they dry up again, the clay blows away exposing the gravel again. The only thing that is likely to be maintenance-free is concrete. This is because the weight of the concrete will be spread/distributed over a large surface area preventing it from sinking into the soft soil.

Cost-wise, concrete works out to be less cost than the tee pads. The $150 price cited previously only covers the cost of the rubber pad. It doesn't include the cost of the materials necessary for prepping the ground underneath the rubber pads. Look at the amount of material and labor went into the tee pads that Steve Dufrane constructed at Shaw Shank. The proposed concrete pads at Moffitt as constructed by HPARD will cost us around $150-165 per tee including materials and labor. Sure seems like a better solution all the way around - except for the accommodation of a course re-design. I doubt that the course will be redesigned...there is some historical significance to it even though many of the trees once used for object golf before the baskets were installed have died now.

It seems like we might be able to acheive significant enhancements to the existing course if we could campaign with HPARD to allow us to plant trees
in strategic locations. (Sculpt our own fairways and obstacles that way.)

Larry

[JimG520]

Originally Posted by ChingLizard

Course redesign of Moffitt is something that can be discussed separately at a club meeting, but it should be treated completely separately from the installation of concrete tee boxes.

Gotta disagree with you there, Larry.

If redesign is a realistic consideration that absolutely must be done before pouring concrete. The two issues are intertwined. If you pour concrete first, then the redesign is out the window.

Also, some members will be more (and others less) likely to vote in favor of the club funding concrete tees depending on the redesign. As was said in the member-only thread, one of the arguments against funding tees is that it's a 1990's era course with SSA in the low 40's and not worthy of the expense.